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General Relativity


Summary of pro-Relativity and anti-Relativity debate in sci.physics
made to the
"The General Relativity gang are circling the wagons." thread.

Seekers of wisdom and truth
can browse this summary in order to determine
if the pro-relativity people of the anti-relativity people
are prejudiced in their positions.

Tom Potter
=========
The problem is that General Relativity includes everything,
EXCEPT the main player, man!

Einstein basically took the maths and methods
of stress analysis, and applied them to the universe,
rather than to an uninhabited, inanimate object.

This took one, or a few easily understood
and easy to compute problems,

and lumped them into one huge,
difficult, if not impossible, to solve sausage,
in which the ingredients had to be re-sorted out,
and weighed (Measured/quantized),

and as it eliminated sentient man,
it put the world back into the old auguring mode it was in

before the Lunar Society took Newton's Equations
and used them to forge the Industrial revolution,

General Relativity is a Tower of Babel
that wastes time, money and minds on such
pursuits as time travel, worm holes, gravity waves,
rubber rulers and clocks, etc.

After Newton's model,
there were immediate and rapid advances
in mechanics, astronomy, etc.

After Maxwell's model
there were immediate and rapid advances
in chemistry, electricity, etc.

After Watson's and Crick's DNA model
there were immediate and rapid advances
in medicine, genetics, animal husbandry,
the history of the Earth and Mankind, etc.

Here we are, 100 years after General Relativity
and it continues to generate more hype and heat
than light and advances.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste."

OsherD
======
I agree with Tom Potter.

[Osher to Sam]
If you [Sam] understand General Relativity so well, why do you
keep posting full articles by other people with no or minimal
comment?

Mark L. Fergerson
===============
You're stealing material from Pentcho Valev now?

Eric Gisse
========
With 8 websites, one would think you wouldn't post so much in a
newsgroup that even you admit does not like you.
--------------
Yes Tom, we know. As a salesman, you don't like or even understand
basic science unless it generates a product. As a result, you think
all research is a waste of time. You don't have to keep reminding us
of your ignorance every f.cking time you post.
-----------------
Yes--you go on and on with your boiler plate responses every time.
  Why, Potter, do you give a sh.t? You don't understand GTR... Why do
  you care? How can you condemn something you don't understand?
---------------
Every time it is more of that boilerplate response tacked on with sh.t
about how you don't understand relativity.
---------------
Perhaps Tom Potter would get a clue and open a textbook on relativity.
I would post links that give experimental support, but apparently you
can't be bothered to read those.

The whole reason people care about relativity is because it predicts
correctly. Sure certain approximations make the application of the
whole theory an exercise in irritation, but that is no reason to dump
GR into the sea like you seem to desire.

I really wish you would stop posting, Tom. You have no appreciation
for the sciences whatsoever. You do not enjoy science nor do you have
any respect for basic research. You see no utility in understanding
the universe for the sake of understanding - almost every
technological device you own is the product of a theory that was
"useless" at the time. The irony of this is lost on you.
--------------------
GR is the only model that predicts all aspects of gravitation
properly. That is all that is required, and GR suffices. Your
inability to understand an admittedly complicated theory is not the
fault of the theory. Theories such as quantum mechanics are no less
complicated - but you don't bitch about them, even though you have no
chance of understanding them either.

The full implementation of QM requires lots of computer and man hours
- but do you bitch?
-----------------
Yea. You hate science. I get it.

Sam Wormley
===========
Hey, Potter, why do you knock General Relativity, when you don't even
understand it? What's it done to you personally to warrant your scorn?
----------------
In what way is GTR a lousy model? How is it pinching your balls?
-----------------
  Yes--you go on and on with your boiler plate responses every time.
  Why, Potter, do you give a sh.t? You don't understand GTR... Why do
  you care? How can you condemn something you don't understand?
-----------------
  Says, the former salesperson, Potter, who doesn't understand GTR
  and can't articulate its use to predict effects on satellite
clocks.
----------------
  I'm asking you a question, Potter: Why, Potter, do you give a
  sh.t? Especially since you have no understanding of GTR! Why do
  you care? How can you condemn something you don't understand?
-------------
  Potter misses the critical point--"GR is the only model that
predicts
  all aspects of gravitation properly. That is all that is required,
and
  GR suffices".
  Not surprising as Potter *fails* to understand GR.

Y.Porat
======
The notion that space is curved
is one of Einstein s biggest flops

hanson
======
GR is a religion, a belief system, that strayed away from the
empirical and
real world physics, as shown in
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/wabnigga_saga.htm
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/msg/96c1fde68777bc9f
wherein it says
GR is even worse of a con then is SR, because it is nothing but
circular
dance and playing around with Newton's revered G. As long as Einstein
uses Newton's G in his equations he carries with him , unavoidably,
all the
baggage, the short comings and defects attributed to Newton's G that
REL is trying to get (unsuccessfully) rid of.

BioFreak
=======
GR is only hyped by non-physicist sorry-a.ses who never
forgave themselves and the world that they chose a
non-physics major once they had the chance. This pit as
well as every vile spot in USA is full of them.

Physicists take one course of it (or two) and then get
busy doing physics. They only hear of GR again from the
sorry-a.s "engineer" losers who thought they had the
world and were left looking at themselves as nothing
but card-carrying slaves with a smile.

"me_so_horneee" (The_Man)
========================
How would you know? Angry becuase GR has developed a better method of
cold selling?

> A mind is a terrible thing to waste."
It is a shame what happened to YOURS.

Phineas T Puddleduck
==================
GR works loon. GPS, Hulse Taylor, Pound and Rebka.
Stick to frothing.
--------------------
Whay do you insist on proving your stupidity on a daily basis? Or has
being a salesman all your life rotted your little brain?
-----------------
Poor potter. Such a small little mind.

Y.Porat
======
GR has nothing to do with chemistry
you are parroting and mumbling !!

Don Stockbauer
=============
Hmmmmmmm.......Doesn't it seem like to be deserving of the name
General Relativity should include ALL relationships between all
entities in the Universe (at least out to the causal horizon)?????
--------------
So this is why second order cybernetics needs to be emphasized, where
the observer (The "I") (introspection, self-awareness) is paramount.
--------------
The neat thing about cybernetics is that it helps one combine systems
into a metasystem (although this is usually a self-organization thing,
not under our control).  Even works for such systems as relativity and
quantum mechanics, combining them into a unified worldview.  And other
such systems, like the nations of the Earth.  But it's all too good to
be true.
---------------
It's "interesting" to read Endless Discussions (ED syndrome).

doug
====
> Tom Potter wrote:
> As can be seen from the following excerpt from a paper given at the
> 31st Annual Precise Time and Time Interval (PTTI) Meeting,
> the "gravitational red shift"  numbers for
> "both general relativity and the quasi-Newtonian approach"
> yield the same results, as far as frequency shift is concerned.

No. It says the classical shift is half the GTR shift.

This is the abstract of a 1999 meeting.  The author does not seem
to believe in relativity and is proposing an experiment to
disprove it.  Nothing has shown up since this abstract on the
internet by this author.  There is no proof here, only speculation.
Why bother to present this when it just weakens any arguement you
might want to present?

Jeff.Relf
========
How we model time, God and aging, effects our health. Lambda-CDM
employs
G.R., telling us that the energy of the known Universe is being "
spent ".
In General Relativity it's obvious that time is truly a spatial
dimension
( static, parochial, immutable ). It's only _ Pseudo _ randomness that
makes
it seem otherwise.

Regarding Doug's comment:
"No. It says the classical shift is half the GTR shift.",

I must point out that constants involve scaling,
and when models vary by pi, this indicates that
one model was scaled with cycles and the other with radians,

and when models vary by "2", this indicates that
one model was scaled with radius and the other with diameter.

--
Tom Potter

http://www.tompotter.us



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